Matt Barnett, Founder of Bonjoro

Bonjoro is a SaaS platform that delivers video email that connects you with your people. Easily record and send quick personalized videos from mobile, web and Chrome.

Andy Halko 0:05
Alright, Matt, I think we’re live.

Matt Barnett 0:07

Andy Halko 0:09
So first question for me is: Can I call you Papa Bear?

Matt Barnett 0:14
You could definitely can me Papa Bear.

Andy Halko 0:16
So, I’m kind of curious, I want to hear all about the product, and your story and all that fun stuff. But I want to hear about Papa Bear and what that means to you and where that came from.

Matt Barnett 0:28
It’s kind of brand plays. We’re were quite an easy gaming culture, quite a fun culture. If you ever been to our site, I think that will come through quite a lot. And so we do have iconography for our brand. So [the] brand is a bear waving… no real reason we just thought about it when we first started the company. We wanted to use an animal. And so I’ll pull up a picture of a bear waving and we’re like, that’s going to be our logo. And then it kind of spiraled from there when they hit certain milestones by sponsoring bears in Russia. We sponsored koala bears for customers here in Australia. And now what we do is every team member who joins the company gets their own bear suits. We have a custom manufacturer where they can choose from 100 different materials and make it their own bear suits. And now whenever we have a retreat, everyone comes together. And we will go hit the beaches or go camping wearing bear suits. So, Papa Bear just…

I love it.

That’s great. I talk about fun cultures; I had to throw my mug in here. I don’t know if you’d see it. But we’ve got our good old fuck mediocrity mug for that, and so I get it and having fun. And we’ve got a great little office culture here as well.

I spend more time with my colleagues than I do with my wife and child. So, the way I see it, if you’re not enjoying it, change your job, you’re in the wrong place.

Yeah. That’s awesome that you have a great culture. It’d be great to hear more about kind of what you’ve done with your team and having grown that. But first, I want to hear about your product and what you guys do and how you came to create it.

So, I’ll tell the story of how we created it. So, we’re based out of Australia, which is a wonderful country, but it’s kind of in the middle of nowhere. And we were building a kind of…

Andy Halko 2:35
Where most of us only know Crocodile Dundee. So that’s…

Matt Barnett 2:40
He’s the only guy… I’ve got a Crocodile Dundee hat here. I should have put it on for the call. Yeah, so we were basically building like an agency all like tech as well where we did video for using qualitative research. So we’ll work with big companies like Procter and Gamble and Dalone and they’ll use us to basically send out surveys to people in China and India and Japan and in America. And then we’ll have people actually doing videos of how they use products in the home. And that’s used for research. Now, when we were building this company, there are only three of us. We’re based here in Sydney, Australia, and all of our leads and customers were in London, Paris and New York because we deal with large fmcgs and large agencies; that’s become an epicenter of that industry. So, back to sales which was my job, we had this challenge where our leads would come in. And I’d be asleep. Because Australia 12 hours time difference.

So, it’s 5 o’clock there now

Yeah, so I can never hop on a call and just get people and again, it’s an enjoyment thing, like we love what we do; it’s lot of fun. That really comes through in how we sell. It works just really well. So, we knew this works. I used to take a ferry to work. So I would take a boat … if you ever been to Australia, it goes past the Opera House which is pretty iconic. So I’d run to the front of the boat. And basically we look at our leads the night before we see John from Ogilvy signed up, and I would do a video for John on my smartphone: Hey John it’s Matt here from the team in Australia. There’s the Opera House. We saw that you came in last night. Just want to say welcome aboard. We’ve already worked with Budweiser and Dalone and Huggies. So, I see who you guys work with. I’ll be in London in six weeks time; let us come in and show you what we do. And we would package up my email and send it off as the first point of contact. They wouldn’t get anything before that. That’s the first thing that we get. Now, we triple that response rate straightaway and as people reply, and they be like, look, I can’t really understand you because it’s too much wind. But you look like a heap of fun. This is great. The Opera House is amazing… like you have to come in and see us. The people love it. And we started we start to build this game. So we had tech resources. Our CCO started to build a little hack, where I would basically record the video and I would put it into an email, send it automatically, and ultimately one of his clients in the UK was like what is this video email thing you guys use? And I was like, it’s just a piece of shit that we built on the weekend. And they were like, well, can we use it? And we’re like, why not? And then, they started using it. And then one of their clients came in and wanted to use it, and then one of their clients started to use it. And that started to snowball. So, we launched it in 2017. And it overtook the main business within about 12 months. And it’s grown a lot faster. We still have the main company, ??, and we just do it out of the UK now. But that basically snowballed to where we are today.

Andy Halko 5:45
And isn’t that how a great product story comes up? You kind of hack an idea together. And people are like, wait a second, I would like to be doing that, too.

Matt Barnett 5:56
I think what may get a lot of companies, and I’ve had failed startups you know… like, this is not my first rodeo. We’re not an overnight success. We’ve had ones where we’ve tried to build for probably more for once things we want to have, while the need and we had a problem where where we weren’t converting enough leads, we were running out of money. And we’re like we need to do whatever it takes. So we solve that need. Turns out that that’s a need for lots of other people who are who are in the same industry as us.

Andy Halko 6:25
Yeah, that makes sense. That’s awesome. So, you kind of talked about the initial project product being something you hacked together. What was the kind of lifecycle? Did you then like build an MVP and launch that? And what did it look like, the trajectory?

Matt Barnett 6:42
Yeah, so that first product was the MVP; we put it out. It looked disgusting, but it worked. And if you have customers who use that, that’s when you know, you kind of got something because it because everyone’s like, we don’t care, like it’s fine; this is great. I think may one of our best insights was realizing that because we were obviously doing it in a funnel, so we were responding to the leads that were coming in. We then worked out how to plug this into CRMs and custom data sources. So, if you’re using Salesforce or Intercom or even a Shopify or Patreon, we sit in those systems and when customers perform certain triggers… so a new lead comes in, when a customer pays or somebody hits their hits their one-year anniversary with you as a company, or somebody needs to leave a review, we actually pick them up and we send them into the system automatically and notify you and say: Hey, now’s a good time to send the video to Jenny or john. And these videos have been done for a reason. So they’re not just off the cuff; they’re done to convert leads or to activate customers or to drive testimonials. So that was the next step that we took. And when we did that, the floodgates opened.

Andy Halko 7:51
That’s awesome. Now, you said you had done a couple of startups before… what was your life, kind of prior to your current companies?

Matt Barnett 8:01
Yes, I’m actually from the UK; I was an industrial designer. I was making pieces for Rolls Royce engines and early phones… like a completely different industry. I used to surf a lot off Scotland and in the UK. And I remember one day, it was February, and it was hailing so hard, we had to come in from the water and we’re hiding on the beach under our boards, full wetsuits like track caps, the whole lot and I start to get holes in the board from the hail as I was highly under it. And I just thought enough, I’m off to Australia. So, I booked the flight over to Australia… came in… inudstrial design really wasn’t a thing here… there was no Kickstarter at the time. So, dense of manufacturing was harder. And there was no… again 320 million people. It was not a huge customer bases sell to for manufacturing. So the same point, tech was just starting to kind of find its feet here. Like behind the States, behind Israel. But we’re starting to go ahead, and I met my founder, and ultimately, learned that designers design like building products offline or online is the same process… building your brand offline or online is the same process. And we started something… we raised money. Two years down, founder break-up… all that joy, but we just kept going, kept going, kept going. And, I think it took us maybe five years of messing around before we got Bonjoro going.

Andy Halko 9:34
Now, I’m kind of curious to unpack that a little bit. When you mentioned you were in industrial design… what are the correlations, but you said you feel like creating a product either way is the same, and I get that at its core. But you know… are there any differences that you’ve seen between trying to build a physical product company versus a software product?

Matt Barnett 10:00
I think the more time I spend on it, the more I realize how similar they are. They seem to be more like things I used to think with different, really on, like go-to market strategies, or just as half both needing investment to build tooling tool up for products versus investment tool up for tech. … I used to be a cat genius; I’d do all the designs actually and build the prototypes myself. Whereas me to go and learn, I guess, the codebase that we work on now… the time wasn’t wasn’t worth the payback. You know; I had a great CTO. So, I would spend the time doing the brand, doing the the high end design work, and then going sailing. So, the only difference for me personally is I can’t get on and tool up the product, whereas the designers could. That said, you know, we’re 15 people now. Like, it’s absolutely not the thing I should be doing anyway. … we have we have many other challenges, but our teams remote around the world, so in six continents.

Andy Halko 10:57
Wow. Now, did you add any of that technical background?

Matt Barnett 11:05
Yeah, of course, absolutely. Because I like getting hands on. Right? … you learn at the end of the day. Even if have it, I probably wouldn’t be the guy on the tools like 95% of the time.

Andy Halko 11:19

Matt Barnett 11:21
You know, it’s fine.

Andy Halko 11:22
Yeah, you know, it’s funny in my background, I started out in development and do something else and run this company, but I always find it bad that I know how to do that stuff. Because then you dive in and be wondering, you know what I mean?

Matt Barnett 11:37
What, so we have an amazing UX design now. … I enjoyed doing design… I can still do product design, which always drives development. But I don’t because they’re much better than me. And they are great. They were amazing… And if I did that, I would let down other parts of the company. So, I think you have to just kind of suck it up; if you’re creative, or if you’re a developer and has heavy side projects that you work on, purely for the pleasure to keep yourself sane. But otherwise, you know, if the company needed to run the company, that’s unfortunately now your job.

Andy Halko 12:19
Yeah… There’s a book… E-myth where it talks about your tribe. You know E-myth? He’s startin a business. And it’s really, even if you’ve loved baking bread, that’s not what you’re gonna do, you’re gonna be the person that has to do the books and the sales and then as you grow, and so, it’s an interesting balance, I think of having passion for what you do. And that’s why you got into it. But then realizing that you have to evolve as a person to do different things as the company grows, and scales.

Matt Barnett 12:54
… at the end of the day, the most important thing you can do is hire great people, and then help them be their very best. Now, that’s scalable, if you can do that, you can build great, amazing things very quickly, get in the right hands of the right people at the right time. If you have that skill to do that, that’s that’s how you grow fast company. … we’ve all designed a company. So we have design first. So we really look at that and part of the brand and the bear suits come from that background. That’s been great for us. … we built an amazing brand in the space. … I say a brand is as valuable as our product and it’s helped us hugely so I think having an attitude and coming from that background is a good thing anyway. And yes, you do look at things like this. This isn’t good enough. You know, let’s let’s get it better. To have an oversight is fine. But yeah, work on the business, not in the business.

Andy Halko 13:49
Yeah, I totally agree. Well, it’s hard for people to do especially if you’re like founder, builder, it’s hard to make that transition mentally from like worker, manager, leader as you go through so it’s interesting.

Matt Barnett 14:05
Like some founders come back to it some some of the big guys… the lacing guys back on product. Yeah, like guys who built billion dollar companies and they’re like, I just want to go back to be a product manager. Like, that’s fine. Hi OC, I say you don’t have to do it the whole way; you will have to at the beginning… there is a point you can step back and get back into products… once you hire the person to be the CEO.

Andy Halko 14:29
Yeah, I have a lot of friends that own businesses, and it’s always what do you really want to be doing in the business day in and day out? And there are some guys that it isn’t visionary, it isn’t integrator. It’s something specific, but then you have to be willing to hand those keys over to someone else.

Matt Barnett 14:49
… it’s a learning curve. … the other thing that you find as a creative, you have a spiral way like you want everything to be perfect. I broke that a long time ago when I was like, You know what? Quick is better than perfect any day of the week? Yeah, half built is better than fully built cause we can learn straight away. So that’s the other thing you have to wait to get hands off the tools you know what, it’s fine, just get out, get out, get out, get out and learn, you know that that’s a hard cycle to break as well, I think

Andy Halko 15:18
… so I was wondering about any myths in the industry, like software, developing software that people that are trying to start, what you would deunk and say that this is what people think it is. But here’s the reality.

Matt Barnett 15:34
Yes, I made a couple of things. One, it’s a long-term game, but that’s like any business. So, let’s say you’ve built up a company. And you can call it a startup if you like, you’re building a business. And if you go in it and try to build a startup and not build a business at the same time, you’re going to hit issues because you weren’t focused on revenue, you weren’t focused on growing a team… you’re focused on potentially the wrong things. At the end of the day, you’re there to build a machine that makes money. And building partnerships and … all the stuff you would do in the offline business, you’re still doing it an online business, … maybe in different ways. The other thing I think, is to that point, so fundraising is interesting. Everyone, me included, we all have to fundraise, we have to fundraise, but there’s some amazing tech companies that are not fundraising, and they’re growing far faster than fundraised companies. And, they’re not first time founders. So I think whenever you see this happen, it’s people who do it again; this isn’t the first rodeo. So, on your side, the guys that design Pickle, if you’ve never heard them, they’re a fortune 500 company; they never raised a dime, and they’re like six-years-old. Like, amazing. They’re based in Arizona, I think… in Scottsdale. ConvertKit is another one… to convert kits; they haven’t raised a dime, and they’ve hit like 20 million AOI and like in six years. MailChimp never raised any money. They had an agency and they built a product on the back of it. So, with the fundraising thing, look, most people who are startups end up doing fundraising for sure I get it. Yeah. But have a look at these companies that have done it without it. Then again they are more experienced but they’ve actually grown, like so much faster or as fast as as the best startups. And they haven’t done any fundraising. I guess the point here is back to the business point is that these guys, in order to do this, they’ve had to build like business first that makes money and they could be self-sustaining. And they’ve had really hard decisions very, very quickly, which if you raise funds, you’ve got more leeway, and potentially don’t learn quick enough. So, I’m not saying don’t raise funds, I’m saying consider all the options. Have a look at the other teams. Try and reach out to founders who’ve done it without raising funds. See what their journey looks like. Even if you can take some lessons and you still raise. It’s invaluable.

Andy Halko 17:54
I’ve talked to a lot of new startup folks that are trying to build something and … again, I think it’s a very personal thing, whether you want to raise money or not. It’s like personality, but I think you should be trying to get to some level of MRR that you’ve proven some value. You’ve got some leverage in the conversation rather than just going out to investors with a grand idea, one, that’s really hard to sell. And two, you’re just going to lose… it’s not going to be worth it at the end of the day.

Matt Barnett 18:31
It takes time… Go and sell to customers instead. It’s like the product industry come back to the design. Like Kickstarter revolutionized that. When I left uni, I think the biggest failure they had, they never really taught us to go and start businesses. … I went to Vegas design school and they were, you know, running like Virgin Airlines design and like Mars and all these amazing companies, but the train levels get jobs. And I was like, sure, let’s do to the businesses. But at the same point, you still have to to raise capital capital to go and get a product to market is capital intensive. Now yes, like Kickstarter, where you can do pre sales. Like it revolutionized… people who are coming out of university could suddenly launch products, you know, people who had no experience fundraising can launch and they’re not giving away equity. Amazing.

Andy Halko 19:25
How did you figure out like your go-to market approach? Was that just something you know, based over years, you had a an idea how to do it? Did you bring the team together and really strategize? Or did you just kind of naturally bootstrap around and figure it out?

Matt Barnett 19:45
There’s about 20 channels; we probably tried about 12 of them. I would say. There’s a few that probably we’d try now. But we’ve tried doing paid events. We’ve tried doing sponsorships. We’ve tried doing ads. We’ve tried focusing down on SEO and content. Like so far, we have three channels only. And the quicker you can find the channels that work for you and then double down on those is the way to go. But you test to do this… the chances of you getting it right first time, you might get one. We think three is a really good number because it’s enough to give you diversity and kind of like failsafe. But it’s not too many to keep your head around. So we basically do a lot of political influence. So we don’t do any paid. But, you know, we do get invited on podcasts. We do have customers who will play videos about products. We do have people talking about us on stage. We do get on stage, sometimes if people ask us. So we do that quite a lot. We have a lot of advocacy in our customers, and we work specifically to try and I guess, get that get that culture going with our customers. Our second channel is the product so we have a natural vital element; people are sending videos as messages, people seeing that and they’re coming in signing up as you work on that funnel. And then thirdly, we do content. So we do run a pretty good blog… what works for us is longer form educational content pieces. So we’ve done like 50 page books on making video funnels in your business to convert more leads and for those we curate it but we actually go to our customers and we get all the content to be vetted by our customers. We have pretty cool customers so that helps a lot. But we found those two channels, the ones that worked for us. So all we’re doing right now is doubling down on those three and ignoring everything else which allows us to focus.

Andy Halko 21:33
It’s pretty great. Is there any big breakthrough that you’ve had over the years? Like one thing that was kind of, you know, really that piece that ratcheted things up for the business? Or was it a slow, you know, like anyone grinding through making it happen?

Matt Barnett 21:51
It’s a grind, man. Everything you do, everything. Yeah… one of the guys at Baremetrics wrote a really good blog on this; it’s like a slow ramp of death… it’s everything you do. If you build a new product piece… we’re about to launch from pretty big, like next week. Everyone’s like, it’s gonna double the company, I’m like, I’m pretty sure it’s gonna make an incremental gain. Because of how good the pieces you do. And obviously, at the very beginning, you make much bigger jumps. But when you crack new things, like they really help in the long term, but that addition is spread out over a period of 12 months or 24 months. So you see, like an incremental going up now that they can’t keep going up if you don’t keep doing these; you will plateau. So you actually have to do them. But it’s very rare. You’ll see a company that gets a step up. We’ve had like, we’re very early on, we had a chap called Pat Flynn who came on board as a customer and he’s pretty, pretty big, big influence. And that really helps with science and I think trust. But since then, we’ve had many, many more influencers come on board like him. And so again, whenever you get it, it’s amazing. But now as part of our funnel, it’s something that we do on a regular basis. … I’m not being pessimistic, but don’t expect like leavers to check, like fundamental leavers. You have big leavers, for sure, you can change things, but it’s not. They’re not overnight things that take a lot of work. And, you know, your change will come over months, not overnight.

Andy Halko 23:17
We talked about the culture piece in the beginning, and I love the bear, you know, suits jackets. Is the culture intentional? Or is it something that happens naturally because of the personality? And the people that you put around you initially?

Matt Barnett 23:40
Yeah, it’ll happen naturally at the beginning. As a small founding team, your culture is gonna be defined by your attitude. So we had the three of us at very beginning; we’re all a bit quirky. And that’s started to lead down this, like, I am a driver again, like, if you’re a founder, you’re probably going to drive it. Like I’m a creative, I’m a bit weird. So that kind of helped. But as you grow, you then have to work in that culture. So it doesn’t take over from that. I think you have to keep working at it and you have to keep on it to get it to spread and stay strong. Like your culture could be sent off track pretty quickly. If you make a wrong hire or you go against one of your core values, you can destroy that culture like overnight; you have a lifetime to build, seconds to destroy. So I think at the beginning when there is a couple of you, you’ll have something there… find out the things that you really enjoy, and customers really enjoy and team really enjoy. Write those down on a piece of paper as your values; you don’t have to get the wording right. But then try and stick to those and try and repeat those when you hire new team members, hire for culture first before you look at a line of code. Finally, you’re going to fit culturally.

Andy Halko 24:53
Yeah, I’m a huge fan of that. I mean, over the years, I’ve had my business for 18 years and you know, you hire one person that’s not a fit and demand to make an impact real quick. And then culture or, you know, core values. I mean, we literally rate people one to five when they’re interviewing, and even in their reviews, like are you meeting, always innovate, be bold, you know, things that are important to us. So I get it. And I think I’ve learned over the years, having people around me that meet those core values, which are part of me, helps us all, like just be together as a group and be in the same direction.

Matt Barnett 25:35
Be brutally honest about what your values are. These are not things you even have to publish; like it’s not for other people to see. It’s like Coke… it was called Pepsi One of them, like, the culture was yours, you have to step on everyone below you to get up the chain. And you know what massive company worked very well. And they just attracted people who were just extremely hard on those, and enjoy the culture and what’s happening now is that a great culture is having about … but they knew that and they hire those people. And really well. So you know, be brutally honest, you know, so many cultural things… Somebody wants to like, that’s fine. Yeah, that’s your culture.

Andy Halko 26:17
Yeah, I remember I worked with a company and one of their core values was about like, charity and stuff, and you go around nasty employees, and no one’s ever given any money or spend any time. And it was really just this thing for PR. And then think about it, though, you’re attracting employees that care about the world and want to give back and they’re the ones coming in for interviews; they get there for a month, and they’re like these guys don’t give a shit about anything.

Matt Barnett 26:44
Yeah, and you’re gonna lose them, you know? So again, be true to what you do. Culture is not a PR thing, and it will make you hire the wrong people.

Andy Halko 26:55
I like that: culture is not a PR thing… I totally agree. I like that; it’s just a little nugget of that’s what it is. Culture is not PR. It’s pretty great. So I’m kind of curious, any big mistakes or challenges that you’ve run into over the years?

Matt Barnett 27:14
So many…

Andy Halko 27:17
And I get it, but is there one that sticks out in your mind of like, man, that was a tough moment, or I really screwed this up?

Matt Barnett 27:27
Look, I mean, if we go back to our first failure: it was building something people wanted, not something that people needed. So you know, like I said, but I’ll reiterate it again. When you build a business, most of the time, not all the time, but most of the time, build something people need, and you’ll be more successful. If you’re doing something, which is a monthly revenue business, you have to have that except to keep you on longer. Obviously, if you’re building things where you… sell like pitches and stuff… that’s slightly different. But you’re actually still fulfilling your need… if you’re stuyding art, you’re still fulfilling a need because somebody needs to show off the fact that they are creative at heart. And it’s easy to understand that and try to understand what their needs are, rather than the wants. They don’t want to picture. They need to do something. So if you understand that you can sell a lot better, you will be more successful. And most people who start their first business, I don’t think nail that… I don’t think truly nail it. Yeah, there’s a really good talk by Michael Seibel of Y Combinator who talks about this; it’s worth watching. And again, you just got to be brutally, brutally honest to yourself.

Andy Halko 28:38
Speaking of resources, anything over the years, like groups, or books, or mentors that have just made a huge impact?

Matt Barnett 28:50
Yes, I actually run a group here. So I used to surf with another tech company back in the day, and we’d surf every Wednesday and every Saturday morning at 6am. Even if we’ve been out drinking till 2am on a Friday, we still go, which had setbacks, but we do so every single week. And then we start to have a few other founders join us. And we’re surfing and we’d end up talking about shop, obviously… we then did that a trip away. We took like 10 of us and we also got to take our partners as well. 10 of us with partners, and we spent the weekend away, and we ended up in the evening, I think like two of the guys just fundraised and someone had done some analysis, we had them set up on a stool and talk about those journeys, and we were friends. Now, we have like 100… well, we limit these weekends away to like 60 people but the group is about 150 founders, mostly tech but not always around Sydney. And so we’ll run these two to three times a year; we’ll do a couple of beach trips and a ski trip. And we’ll go away for a weekend. And again, it’s all friends and the main the number one thing is no dicks so if you are a dick, you don’t get to come again. And in the evenings, we’ll have three people the same format, who who just raised or exited or fired a co-founder or done something difficult, get up and talk. And then on Sunday morning, we’ll have three people talk about a channel to market that they’ve been really successful at and how they did that. Somebody else might talk about culture or whatever else. And that’s been going on now for eight year and it just keeps getting bigger and bigger… And we still bring in young people, but that as a support network is the best thing I’ve ever done. And again, it was a happy accident; we never had to go build this. We don’t charge people… it’s mostly friends. But those are the guys you end up talking to whenever you have a difficulty. And if one of the other founders has difficulty, everyone’s like, Hey, you need to call so and so on. Yeah, you know, he’s having a hard time.

Andy Halko 31:01
I’ve been part of a couple peer networks. And being an owner, it can be a lonely place. There’s some things you can’t talk to employees about, or even spouses or any of that. And so, I just need someone to call and say, man, it was a rough day, and I need some advice. So I get it.

Matt Barnett 31:21
… so, travel around your industry… it’s good to go outside. But you know, if you’re on tech, don’t have a bias towards tech because you’re gonna hit similar challenges. versus if you’re an agency, you probably had similar challenges there… while you’re there to learn from other people. And make sure that you’re not the smartest guy in the room because then you get to learn the most.

Andy Halko 31:48
So, what’s the next evolution stage for you? And Bonjoro?

Matt Barnett 31:59
So, we’re three years in now… we have our common ethos of how we run the company which is this idea of automate process, but never relationships. And so we’re building out the platform to kind of satisfy that. So we’re not really a video platform. And everyone’s like, you guys do the video messaging. W`hat we actually do is we tell customers the right time to connect with their customers. That’s really what we’re doing. Now, video is a way to do that. It’s very transparent. But what we’re looking into is okay. On a customer journey, lead, sales stay with you for years… at what point should you be reaching out in person, and injecting a bit of personal time to keep that customer with you for life. So, what’s the science behind when to do that? One of the best tools to use to do… that’s kind of where we’re taking the platform. So a lot of product work this year; expand the team to work with that. We’ve got a bunch of the team coming over next week, and we’re all going to do a big workshop and then go camping for a weekend. Yeah, it’s gonna be 20 days; it’s going to be very big. Yeah, I hope everyone comes; flight and travel it’s looking like…

It’s interesting… it’s fascinating to see how humans and governments are behaving… it’s not a good thing. But you know, there’s always a silver cloud, there’s a lot to learn from this… it’s interesting to see how humans behave, how herd mentality works. And that actually comes back at the product because this is how you build things; this is how you build, like your own culture and your tribe as well. So I think it’s interesting looking at that… take from it what you can.

Andy Halko 34:14
I appreciate you getting up at 5am and having a conversation with me; it’s awesome. Are there any ways that you want people that listened or watched, connect with you or the team?

Matt Barnett 34:28
For sure. If you’d like any advice or want to reach out, if you go to LinkedIn and type in Papa Bear, I will come up; I’m the guy in the bear suit. So, if you want help, let me know. I had a lot of help getting here. I’m always willing to pass it on. If you want, check out Bonjoro. If you go and sign up, you’ll get a video from my team here or in the UK or in the States or South Africa. So you’ll be welcomed on board in person. If you apply to that video that will be the individual that you’re talking to. So if you want to see in action, give it a go. If you want help reach out anytime.

Andy Halko 35:00
Yeah, that’s awesome. Well, thank you again for taking the time early this morning. I appreciate it.

Matt Barnett 35:06
No worries; thank you for taking the time from your end, too.

Andy Halko 35:08
Awesome. All right. Well, I’m gonna shut us down here. Cheers. And thank you again.