Lilia Stoyanov, Co-Founder & CEO of Transformify

Tony Zayas 0:03
Hello and welcome. It’s Tony Zayas for the SaaS founders show. And thanks for joining another episode. Excited to talk to someone who is in Europe on the other side of the pond here today. going to be talking to Lilia Stoyanov, she is the CEO and founder of Transform Transformify. Super exciting business. And Tranformify is actually a platform that revolutionizes the way companies of all sizes, hire, manage and pay remote teams, contingent workforce, and freelancers. So very timely for today’s world and workforce. With that, I’m going to bring Lily on. Hey, Lily, welcome. Thank you for joining us.

Lilia Stoyanov 0:50
Hey, many thanks for having me.

Tony Zayas 0:53
Absolutely. Excited to have you here today and tell us so I read the brief description of transformer five, but I would love to hear you describe the business and tell us what it’s all about.

Lilia Stoyanov 1:07
Imagine that you need to grow your business across the globe. And obviously, you need to hire at least more sales force in new countries. How do you do it without setting up regard to doing so is extremely expensive, it takes time, there are many hurdles involved. That’s transforming my calves. If you’re growing, first of all, you need to find the right people. And we have an awesome applicant tracking system to help you find the right people. And then to navigate them through then after that you find them. And the next step is well, you need to vote. You make the documents you need to check if these are the right people imagine, in some cases, there are criminal records that require background checks, etc. You need to be prepared for it and you want to store all this in one place don’t. That’s what we do as well. We have HR IS system that allows you to onboard all the people regardless if they are freelancers, if they’re full time employees, part time employees doesn’t matter. And then once you have all this in place, obviously if this happened to be freelancers, you want to seamlessly buy them. Do they know how to issue invoices? I bet no. Unless you’re hiring accountants, the majority of people who provide services as freelancers. Are you prepared to be in compliance with the tax legislation? Instead of using third time? Imagine this is a sales representative. Do you want to lose that time with invoicing with payments? No, you don’t. You want them to sell, you want them to help you grow. So for that reason, Transformify fully automates the billing process, we show how to market yourself during invoice once you approve a payment. The payment itself falls seamlessly. Freelancers, and service providers select a payment method. And we have a variety, even crypto will be supported in a couple of weeks. So to get from two coins will be available to all these people to select from to make it most convenient for them to receive money where they are need to worry about. That’s how something that usually is completely manual and exports of time. Lots of cost comes into play becomes easy becomes a political part from a very simple data. That’s what we do. And that’s how you grew up exponentially. That’s actually the secret behind our process. Well, we were able to hire the right people when we needed them while we needed them.

Tony Zayas 4:07
It’s fantastic. It sounds like a really robust solution. I think in today’s you know, workforce, with so many people working remotely. How has that impacted? How has that, you know, I’m guessing grown the business.

Lilia Stoyanov 4:25
We started with as a no remote company back in 2015. It has nothing to do with COVID. It has been like that since the beginning. Sometimes I joke that Transformify is my lifestyle business. I’m a digital nomad myself. I love traveling, working and meeting new people all the time was five months I was in Portugal now I’m in Spain. And each time I plug into the local community, the local ecosystem of ex founders to expand our network. I worked on it. But how could I do it with a corporate job, prior Transformify I was a director with big enterprise, it’s impossible. And for that reason, I created the business. First of all and foremost, it was to support my own lifestyle. And of course, it is sorting out the issues and problems faced by many people who need to find a job or support others, either because there are no jobs locally, or they would like to explore new opportunities or to work in travel, the reasons might be money, but they need a solution. And they need to know that they will get paid the moment they provide services.

Tony Zayas 5:44
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I was somewhat interested to see, you know, the business has been around since I think 2015. Right. So like you said, this is not something that was born out of COVID. We’ve talked to so many founders that have businesses that have been born out of, you know, the pandemic, but you guys started well, before that. So really interesting. One, where did the, what’s the origin story? Where did the idea come from? I’m guessing you, you know, we’re we’re looking probably facing those challenges of, you know, remote and dealing with contractors and all that type of thing. Where did the concept for the business come from?

Lilia Stoyanov 6:27
Within said that, it was an in the white one, it was an idea that came as a single idea, to my mind, it was natural. First of all, once I completed my corporate career, I already decided to start my own business. At first, I started as a management consultant providing consulting services in companies in the FinTech industry. In Denver, based across the globe, I was providing those services by phone calls. Occasionally, I traveled exchange documents via document tools, published, excuse me, and that’s how I saw the need, there were loads of people just like me highly skilled on demand, who needed to organize their work for that was one side of it. Then when I was still weak, then the price I was working for, I like the business transformation process. Usually in the business transformation process, you’re supposed to optimize everything, directly design the processes to help them live them, to make it easier and cheaper for the company to manage. But inevitably once the people lose their jobs, those jobs get automated, it’s part of the process it’s part of the world we live in. And that’s how I decided that there is a potential even better, it’s not only highly skilled consultants that would work the way I wanted to work. And the way I worked for almost one year after I left my corporate job, I expanded it, I expanded it to make it easy for people to find jobs, to support their desired lifestyle. Some of them wanted to do it because they wanted to work in travel just the way I want to do it. Some of them needed to do it because they needed to stay home, either because they needed to take care of someone who is sick. And in such cases, the income is tremendously cut. You have one person who has no income, they need to be provided care all the time. Another person needs to stay home as a caregiver receiving a very small welfare payment in the family struggles. What if the caregiver could stay at home, continue their career, work part time and support family? This was the reason for some people to opt working from home or before the covid. Then you had people living in harmony was going on areas where drugs were cut, and they needed to find the job without relocating. They already have a life. Imagine that you can build oil while you are, let’s say 50 You have a mortgage, you have kids, you got all your friends, you have a balance there and all of a sudden you are jobless. No drugs, your only option is to rotate even abroad and you cannot do it. It’s not doable. Do you need to do it? No. There is another option. And that’s how the business model of Transformify evolved over time. It started with addressing one of the As a sort of the highly skilled consumer consumers, then we expanded it from a social angle to provide opportunities to people who needed to work remotely flexible hours, being get from home being paid from a coworking space close to their home because they needed to, or even people who are disabled, they couldn’t do they need to work from home, but they still needed to provide for themselves. That was the second target audience we addressed. It was, again, a very natural process, there were people who are contacting me on LinkedIn, or called me on social media in general, saying, we read about to Spotify, we write that it’s possible to work remotely. And I’m talking about 2016 2017, what remote work was still super exotic as a concept. It was not easy to persuade employers to create sub shops to provide that level of flexibility. But we were doing it, especially when Corporate Social Responsibility got involved, it was much easier to persuade employers to create some jobs and to offer such jobs to those made. And then over time, our audience expanded a lot. And now there is hardly any audience we are not addressing. We have careers that are being paid working on demand by Transformify. We have researchers who are working on a variety of projects, we have anything that comes to mind. And you didn’t believe that these people would be working on such a scale. But they do, because that’s how they see their life. That’s the best for them.

Tony Zayas 11:58
That’s great. It’s a fascinating story. I would be curious, how did the business of yours through the pandemic with this explosion of remote work and, you know, contract workers and all of that, what is what happened to the business over the last couple of years?

Lilia Stoyanov 12:20
We expanded tremendously. Last year, we saw tenfold growth, which is 10 times versus 2020. Can you believe that? And it was pretty hard here to everyone but not to us, we were addressing the problems faced by many people. And I bring remote work. And then before in 2020, we were growing a lot as well. To have the pandemic actually had a positive effect. It made it much easier to sell the concept to especially big enterprises, letting them work there, people come work from home. Now the pandemic makes you accept the fact that they’re working from home, there is nothing else you can ask for. Then, please address your processes, address your security systems, address everything that needs to be addressed, provide the necessary tools to make sure that your employees receive the best they could receive in terms of one pounds, in terms of career choices in terms of flexibility. That’s how you can have them. That’s how they’ll stay loyal to you. Instead of leaving your company. We have seen the great resignation. It is much easier now to go to someone let’s say an HR director with all those arguments, as usual, please, because they see they face before it was hard, really hard.

Tony Zayas 13:55
Yeah, it sounds like an incredible solution for the times. How did you you know, with that growth that came over the last couple of years, what were the primary channels like how are people finding out about Transformify, since it is such a important solution for what many companies we’re going through.

Lilia Stoyanov 14:15
You might find this fascinating, but we have zero marketing budget. We are not advertising on social media. We don’t have pay per click or anything like that. The way we do it is first of all seen as risky, but I believed in it and it proved to be successful. At the beginning during the first three years. The majority of the businesses using Transformify used it for free, it was completely free. Then we slowly switched to a freemium model but those who have tried it were already spreading the world. They were inviting others to try it out. We have I’d say 70 to 80% of oil users coming to our referral program, it’s like that if you have a happy user, they bring more they trust. The referral program itself is also something I would really recommend to all SaaS founders, it’s neglected. I know that many SaaS companies have never even considered one. Referral, an affiliate program is something almost the same. But the major difference here is that instead of recruiting affiliates, you have those copy customers who are already with you. Referring new customers, sometimes they refer their own user base on the revenue share basis. How it works Transformify shares, 20% of its revenue with partners, referring new businesses, we have other SaaS companies, they have their own big database gets their own customers, but because we don’t compete with each other, in most cases, we will complement with each other, they are happy to refer their customers to us, it becomes a new revenue channel to them, which are 20% of the revenue over six months, especially during the pandemic, when many companies struggled with declining revenues, monetizing their user base through referral was why saving, that’s how we will have many of them survive. But it also fuels our growth, it’s much more efficient than any traditional marketing out there. If it is pay per click or social media marketing, you pay before to see the result, you see the result or after some time, you can measure the return on investment, let’s say in a month after the comeback. And even after that time, in some wouldn’t be this with referral programs, especially if it is revenue share prices, because it will be on a different basis as well. It’s easy, you buy only if revenue is generated, otherwise you won’t buy. That’s how you don’t want cash. First you collect and after that you share. And it’s fair, it’s fair to everyone involved. So please think about it. If you can structure such a thorough problem, this could really fuel your growth, it could be exponential, and everyone knows they would. These are existing customers. They’re bringing more customers, they stay with you. They become your customers because they have a vested interest.

Tony Zayas 17:52
I would love to hear more about how you grew that referral program and the freemium model. We have a lot of SaaS founders, we talk to that use a freemium model. And usually there’s some challenge of figuring out how to get the free users to become paid users. How did you guys go about that?

Lilia Stoyanov 18:12
It is tricky. I am absolutely on your side with that, but depending on the business model, first of all, you need to have some service that easily can be offered for free, because the underlying costs to you as a founder is very low, the fixed cost is very low, your bottom line needs to stay low, otherwise, you might not start generating revenue early enough to survive does the risk, you need to know when to start monetizing. You need to have very clear timelines. Once you figure this out, then you have that surface, that subscription that could be offered for free. And here it is one objective. The objective is as many target users started by us to subscribe and try it out. If they’re unhappy, and you need to make them happy. First you need to make sure that the product works. And the user experience is impeccable. Then then start talking about it. You can even ask them, you get it for free. But please here, share links and we have nice share buttons to share. And they were doing it it was given back. It is again your marketing that needs to come up with the strategy. Being it through the news letters being it through your book. You need to turn all these users into ambassadors. That’s why you give something for free to them. They need to help you out. But they need to enjoy the process. If they don’t enjoy, it won’t work. It needs to be even in the way entertaining to them. They need to be engaged with this process, the moment you start selling to them, usually is at least in six months after they subscribe, when you know that they’re happy, your account managers call them you check, you check what the expectations are, if they’re asking for some new features, and you see that there are a lot of customers that are likely to use them, you verify them, not just like, you answer ways you call, then you already know that there is something all these users are ready to pay for. And the moment these new functionalities are added, you send them a very nice email. And then the account manager of course calls and saying, remember the conversation we had, we have great news for you. Here is the new functionality you ask us for. And it’s even better, we are giving you a price better than the competition, believe it they say they already know the functionality that comes for free to them. In our case, it was the ATS, we were allowing everyone to post a job listings for free. If compared to any competitor, they were competitors that were charging something like 300 pounds for jaw bracing, we would like everyone to post for free. But the moment we added other features, we added that HR is we are a freelancer management system, etc. Those features were already right. The simple reason that all those users were already accustomed to the software they were they had pools of data, then you have one other factor. And that factor is the resistance to change. People don’t like to learn new software they don’t like to make right date. If you give them something they have asked for. And you convince them on top of everything that they’re getting to do. They say that’s the approach. Always step in the shoes of your customers understand what they mean, understand what they’re identifying. And convince them that view is great. They couldn’t get any better. Once you give them.

Tony Zayas 22:43
Yeah, it’s really good stuff. Great advice that you’re giving away here. I would like to unpack some of this a little bit, because I think there’s a lot of really good tidbits and suggestions you’re making here. So first, I would like to ask you, you said you started out with the solution being free. And you also mentioned that it’s important to figure out kind of that timeline for free and then moving to paid. So how did how did you determine when Transformify would focus on bringing in the paid users?

Lilia Stoyanov 23:17
To me first it was to figure out for how long can we run for free. We had a certain budget, and I couldn’t afford to run out of money. I’m an angel investor, I invested in this company and I still owe 96%. It’s unusual, it’s a very high risk. As an angel investor, don’t do that. Enjoy investors are supposed to hold 1 to 5% rather than 10. But not more than that diversify for in this case, my budget was clear. And I was ready to write it off. It was very risky. But at the same time, the perceived return would be incredibly high. That’s why I took the risk. In starting from that budget. I first looked at the timeline, how much we can sustain. Then once I had the timeline, I cut it by a collapse. I said okay, I can run for free duty end of 2020. We started monetizing early in 2019. To stay on the safe side. That’s one thing you need to definitely consider. Then, if you’re planning to raise funding before you start monetization. In some cases, you need to depending depending how much money you have, depending on what your competition is doing as well. If your competitors are much faster than you, you have no other choice but to raise funding much earlier than expected much earlier. In such cases, keep an eye on the KPIs. Because it’s before remonetization to have a good valuation price, you need to show month on month revenue triggers. The revenue triggers to me are user growth, but also churn, right? You have those users, you have, let’s say, 10% month on month growth, that’s impressive, then you need to show a very low churn, right? You give this for free. If the churn rate is high, and it’s free, it speaks really bad about the product they don’t like. It’s free, and they still keep an eye on that.

Tony Zayas 25:54
Diving into churn a little bit further, what are some of the things that you really look out for? And how do you analyze, you know, what are the churn factors?

Lilia Stoyanov 26:07
It could be a variety. In our case, I’m looking at dissatisfaction. That’s one, if a company stops using our product, definitely we can call and try to figure out why. What was it? Was it because they grew up exponentially, and we’re not sufficient in terms of functionality, it’s possible sometimes. That’s wrong, is it because they’re looking for something we still don’t have. It’s also possibility, you can not satisfy the needs of every customer. They come from a variety of industries, you need to stay close, you don’t have the money, there is no point to develop any single feature someone is asking for, especially if you see that this rather isolated requests. I’ll give you an example. We have a variety about staffing companies that initially use the ATS they want. It is driven by predictive analytics, it helps them a lot to understand if a candidate is a good fit. It’s very simple to schedule interviews, track the progress, have assessments, everything at a glance, for a work done, it was enough to satisfy them. Then once we got the FMS, the Freelancer management system, it became even more fascinating. Okay, we have the right candidates. Now we can assign projects, we can automate the billing and invoicing. Even better Transformify acts as a company as a service, minimizing any compliance risks, you know, e certified in the UK, AB five in California, across the globe, the regulatory framework is super complex. And it gets even worse over time, they will have more than happy with them. But when surely some of them start with asking. We don’t want to pay for CRM, we don’t want to pay for an accounting capability software to manage our own customers. And we want to add all this. So we needed to add a complete functionality. Act like an accounting software, that is issuing invoices to their own customers taking care of submissions to a variety of tax authorities across the globe, compliance, etc. This is not our business, we are a workforce management system. We are not an accounting software provider, it makes no sense. Of course, to them, This is extremely useful, especially if it comes in the same price. So they pay the same, but they save from paying subscription for that accounting software, billing software CRM to track etcetera. I’m gonna develop this. It’s not my business. It’s not where I need to spend money. On top of that is just out staffing agencies, which are a small percentage of our users if we potentially lose some of them, because they find another solution, which is specifically designed to address the needs of our staffing industry. And partnering with that to meet that churn rate wouldn’t be something to worry about outra the sheet, the fourth of the business development team, by our primary audience, to those 70% of our customers that are midsize current prices and need precisely why Transformify cost of. That’s how we designed our product, having them in mind, no doubt, staffing agencies with all their needs, you need to always ask a question, we’ll get your customer base. What’s the ratio? What are the cohorts? The cohort analysis is, for those SaaS founders who are not familiar with it. It’s grouping your customers into cohorts. And in each cohort, you have something criteria that applies to the customers being in the industry, the size, how much they pay, it depends on your business, you need to define that. Once you define it, you know, which cohort is best for your business. It’s the cost profit margin, it’s the lowest churn, right? It’s the lowest need of any maintenance whatsoever. These are the type of customers you want. Okay, you have the other cohorts, of course, don’t say no go that he really is motivated. But don’t spend too much time and effort to satisfy all their needs. Because they’re not your market. You’re wasting your time and resources if you’re spending, especially if the profit margin is really slim, which happens as well.

Tony Zayas 31:33
What would your advice be to assess founder was trying to balance that they’re getting feedback from users. And some of the users are saying that, you know, the solution doesn’t meet all their needs. Yet, at the same time, they’re starting to suggest features that start to move outside of the realm of the focus of the platform of the business. How do you what would your advice to them be? How do you balance that?

Lilia Stoyanov 32:01
Going back to the cohort analysis, if those complaints are coming from a misrepresented cohort, by misrepresented, I say, this is a cohort that is generating, let’s say, less than 5% of the revenue, it requires. Maintenance in terms of account managers calling is company’s time to cater to their needs, because they have all sorts of demands, then, the best case simply tell them at the moment, we are not planning to expand our call into that direction. And for that reason, we are more than happy to do whatever is needed to satisfy the needs that are already addressed. That’s why you came to us in the first place. If they’re not happy with that, let them go. It’s better is better than having dissatisfied customers could talk around and then be satisfied because they believe that you need to address their needs here and just don’t write such expectations.

Tony Zayas 33:21
That’s great. That’s that focus that you’re putting on the target audience and focusing on really the right audience is fantastic advice. I really appreciate the way you’re approaching it that going back a little bit, you mentioned talking about the referral users and the importance of like engaging them and keeping them entertained. How, how has your company gone about that? I would just love to hear a little bit.

Lilia Stoyanov 33:52
We have a variety of marketing initiatives, which are non conventional. First, it was our book, we started and we started publishing on our end, we were also asking others, it could be in the industry, you know, that remain to create backlinks, that’s how you earn goes high. We were exchanging books. They were publishing to our book, of course, the quality of content needed to be very high. We wouldn’t do just everyone to publish our book by but that was always providing a different perspective to our readers, and it was bringing more customers. It’s important. Everything is optimized around your keywords. That’s good for SEO, search engine optimization, then you are exchanging fibers. The moment an article was published, the author will just another company in the industry. Usually another SAS company, shares this across their social media channels. We also share it across our social media channels. When our marketing publishes an article to their wall, the very same happens again, we are tapping into each other sorghums we’re not charging each other, we’re just exchanging fibers. But in this business and not die in this business, which is life in general, much more is built on human touch on being there for other people doing a favor to someone, then they will do it, they’ll do it for you, the moment you ask. Don’t neglect that it does not need to be right all the time. That’s one perspective, then we start it with introduces, we will have a certain interval topic. Let’s say in the past, it was diversity and inclusion, interviewing Chief Human Resources officers interviewing senior people within very big companies to share what do they think about certain topic, usually, it was a big problem, a big scandal, but discussion in the industry. Again, it was driving old truck. On top of this poll, if you check my LinkedIn profile, you’ll see that I usually participate in at least one podcast, or having to build at least once per week, you need to have a face. Your company needs to be associated with the person. It’s a great product, but people buy from people don’t neglect that either. You see Richard Branson, you see Elon Musk, and they’re not isolated examples. When you hear this work, you immediately imagine you Elon Musk. When people hear about your prompt, they need to associate it with force. This is the person they’re ready to buy from. And this is the person who needs to stand out. This person needs to speak a difference. This person needs to write articles, this person needs to be seen. That’s how your brand is seen. And that’s how you sell without a sales pitch. It’s never sales pitch, people don’t like it like that. They need to associate with the brand, they need to understand the background, they need to like it, put it simply they need to like, if they like it, they’re ready to pay a premium for it. Look at not that Apple is significantly better. If you compare it to some some people argue. But they like it. They like the story around it. They like everything they have been told about his prompt. And that’s why they keep buying and paying a premium. The very same will happen with your product, make people ready to pay a premium make people love it. Love some humor to be associated with your brand.

Tony Zayas 38:22
I love it. I love that idea of, you know, humanizing the brand. I think sometimes in the tech landscape, we can get pulled away from that. And the thing that I always like to talk about is you know, despite how fast technology changes, Human Nature says the stays the same. human psychology stays the same. So we always have to play off of that. And like you said, you know, people buy from people. So I love that what you shared there fantastic. Going along that it sounds like you know, when you talked about the idea of Transformify being a lifestyle business for you. You mentioned, you know, moving from different communities and you’re in Portugal, you’re in Spain. Now, how do you get involved with the local communities? Do you connect with other entrepreneurs and founders? You know, what does that look like?

Lilia Stoyanov 39:15
Before I travel, I usually have a plan. I have a map of who I want to meet. It is usually someone in the local tech startup ecosystem. If there are incubators, accelerators, etc. I want to read with them. I always meet with digital nomad communities as well, because I’m one of them. Again, if you’re one of them, it’s much easier to relate with you. You’re accepted. First of all, find your old tribe. Who are the people you’d feel comfortable with and what are the people who would be interested to hear your story why. Then once you figure out who they are. Well Google, Google can find out where you can find that by the numbers. Where are the biggest digital nomad communities in the world to call that speak with that be one of them, live with them for a few months. Then once you have this check which associations are likely to follow customers. In our case, these are the HR associations we are selling for HR directors, HR managers, its workforce system. And of course, the procurement directors, the funder management system is fantastic. Bankers necessary. If you’re working with freelancers, but any one funder or irregular funder when you have this, just check, okay, what search associations you can go after them countered by counting. That’s one way.

Tony Zayas 41:09
Well, I think you’re breaking up here a little bit on us.

We’ll give her a second to see if she can reconnect. So really, if you can hear me, you froze up a little bit on me. So I don’t know if you want to give it a second. Or if you want to leave and come back in. But some really valuable information. I love the idea of humanizing in this idea of connecting. There’s so much value in those entrepreneurial communities, we hear from almost all of our guests on the show here, have the importance of really utilizing and leveraging the communities. But there she is now, how you’re back. Can you hear me Lily?

Lilia Stoyanov 42:01
Something is happening with the internet connection of mine, I hope it doesn’t happen again.

Tony Zayas 42:08
No problem. No problem. I know that it happens. Just to dive and move ahead a little bit. I would love to hear what is your vision for the next three years of trans Transformify?

Lilia Stoyanov 42:21
To me revenue growth and profitability are extremely important. We are in that scale of phase, when every single month counts. If I see a month with less than 20% month on month growth, to me, it’s already in the next three years, I definitely want to see this company as a very established product. I want potentially to go public in two to three years rather than two years. That was our initial plan, or we’ll have an exit. But definitely in three years we were exit one way or another.

Tony Zayas 43:06
It’s great. That’s super exciting. All the growth, you guys have seen that kind of upcoming plans. Before I asked my last question, Lily, where’s the best place for people to connect, learn more about you and Transformify.

Lilia Stoyanov 43:20
Transformify pass its own title book, which then I arrived for entrepreneur. And you can Google me as in my column there. I’m also a professor at zippered business school in Barcelona. Last, of course, you can follow me on Instagram. This is fascinating because you see photos from the community beside me the places I visit. It’s the lifestyle side of the business. There is something for everyone, depending what you want to see what you want to read is in all the printer, which is general advice on entrepreneurship. It is the HR book if you’re looking for the best way to organize workforce transfer payments. It’s my Instagram account. If you want a full digital nomad who enjoys being it’s up to you.

Tony Zayas 44:20
That’s awesome. Very cool. I will definitely follow and check all that out. All right, so the last question that we always like to wrap up our conversations with this. If you were able to go back before your entrepreneurial adventure, and sit down have a cup of coffee with your younger self. What is the one piece of advice that you would give?

Lilia Stoyanov 44:45
Stay focused. In the beginning by makes all the mistakes was because I was losing focus. I was listening to too much to the customers without having that perspective who the target customers really are. They were already customers I was looking at and saying, okay, the key is we need to do it. The question is, how many? Is it worth your time your money? Losing focus trying to satisfy everyone, Never works. It’s likely to deprive your resources of your loan to burn your car faster than expected. Don’t make this mistake. I’ll always go back to this in these days when someone is asking me for new features. I always remind myself

Tony Zayas 45:41
Awesome, that is fantastic advice. I think it plays off with some of the things you share, you know, really focusing on the target audience and markets. Really great advice, a lot of powerful gems that you shared with us here today. So really appreciate your time today Lily. Lily started on off from Transformify. Thank you everybody for tuning in. We appreciate it. We will see you again next week. And Lily once again. Thank you. Thanks so much. Take care everybody. We will see you next time.